Curse

ModoBasico · Apr 18, 2008, 02:06 PM // 14:06

After the last update of april 17th, the skill [Lightning Orb] Lightning Orb (LO) does no more inflict the condition Cracked Armor (CA), and now it is very similar to [Lightning Hammer] Lightning Hammer (LH), being the energy cost of the latter 10 units greater and the recharge time 1 second smaller than the former. To sum up, now both skills do the same damage; LO is a projectile, costs 15e and recharges in 5s; and LH is direct damage, costs 25e and recharges in 4s.

To be fair, by its efect/cost/recharge time, LO was a very good and strong skill, but I disagree with anet when they cap this skill and do not improve LH, which is not so good taking into account the big amount of energy that it needs. So I want to propose an alternative, here it is:

- LO: projectile damage plus CA, cost 25e, recharge 5s;
- LH: only direct damage, cost 15e, recharge 5s.

In that way, LO will inflict CA as before, but with a greater energy cost and taking into account that it does it as a projectile (which can be dodge), and at the same time LH will adjust more precisely to its effect.

I think that, in this way, LO and LH will be more competitive and versatile. What is your opinion? I hope you and anet agree with this idea. Thanks.

PS: excuse my awful English.

Azreal911 · Apr 18, 2008, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Hammer cannot be dodged and doesn't need line of sight to the target, so in pvp you can snipe people behind walls with it. That's a pretty big plus in pvp area's like fort aspenwood (behind the doors) and AB if you are under a cliff away from direct combat, making peeps go "wtf?!"

Kale Ironfist · Apr 18, 2008, 03:14 PM // 15:14

What I don't understand is why you want to buff Lightning Orb (in a fashion). The first proposal is terrible, increasing the energy cost by 10 just for Cracked Armor. Moreover, it never had any reason to have Cracked Armor in the first place. Your second proposal defeats the purpose of having Lightning Hammer as a skill; without the projectile nature, there is no reason to run Lightning Hammer.

Thus, I introduce you to two other skills in a similar vein: [Fireball] and [Rodgort's Invocation].

Rodgort's costs a lot more and has a slightly longer recharge for a guaranteed hit, slightly higher base damage and burning over Fireball. Lightning Hammer costs a lot more, slightly less recharge for a guaranteed hit over Lightning Orb.

You could say that it's not a fair comparison because Rodgort's has more pros and tends to be run with Mind Blast as energy management, whereas Air doesn't have the same capability, thus inducing preference to Lightning Orb. Which begs the question, in almost all situations, Lightning Orb is a better skill. Why do you want to buff it? Why do you want to induce preference of a Core skill over a Factions only skill? Why do you want Lightning Hammer to be less competitive compared to Lightning Orb?

ModoBasico · Apr 18, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32

So another idea will be:

- LO: only projectile damage, cost 15e, recharge 5s;
- LH: direct damage plus CA, cost 25e, recharge 5s.

BlackSephir · Apr 18, 2008, 03:37 PM // 15:37

I missed the part where you explain WHY they should be changed.

Kale Ironfist · Apr 18, 2008, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

I missed the part where you explain WHY they should be changed.

^I quote this because more attention should be paid to it. There's no point randomly buffing skills just because you can.

ShadowsRequiem · Apr 18, 2008, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Yah LO is a projectile which can be aviod very easy, thats why its less energy. LH always hits so it makes perfect sense.

Though I myself never understood why Ligthning orb caused cracked armor.

cgruber · Apr 18, 2008, 04:15 PM // 16:15

I think Lightning Hammer could possibly have the cracked armor attribute added to it. The energy cost is high enough to warrant it or another effect such as % chance of knockdown. Increase lightning orb to 15 e if you want that to have cracked armor, quite a few spikes are now using cracked armor as one of their conditions to soften up the enemy and being able to save a skill slot and both perform dmg as well as provide the condition make it too strong.

Winterclaw · Apr 18, 2008, 04:23 PM // 16:23

LO might get cracked armor back after may 1. It's a little too early for this thread.

Phoenix Tears · Apr 18, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Both skills imo need serious Redesings.

Lightning Orb needs to becoem a serious AoE Skill, because thats what Lightning Orbs normally do - AoE damage. They hurt everythign, that comes too near to them, because their lightnings shoot out at all directions and react on things, that come near to them, like magnets.
Even older games like Diabolo 2 made a much more realistic working Lightning orb Skill, which hits multiple nearby foes over a certain duration!!!
With this change this skill should become also then an Elite Skill, because a Lightning Orb is 1 of the most powerful Lightning Spells that exist, because experienced Elementalists can increase the size of such a Lightning Orb immensely to a size of their wish, especially when above of their heads is a thunder storm and they can use the help of the nature with natural lightnings to increase the power of the Lightning orb dramastically!!!

The Skills needs to get redesign to this imo:

Lightning Orb [E] > 15E, 2s, 30s
You will create for the next 5 seconds a Lightning Orb, which will hit every second all nearby foes to it with Lightnings which shoout out from the Orb to the foes, which will deal 20-55 damage and will deal 25% Armor Penetration. Every nearby foe can't be hit by the Lightnings within those 5 seconds more than twice. Lightning Orb will cause Cripple for 5-20 seconds to the foes and to foes, that suffer on a Water Hex also additonal Cracked Armor for 5-20 seconds. This Spell will cause Exhaustion.

Lightning Hammer needs to get reduced Energy Cost to 10 imo, slightly reduced damage and should have longer recharge, and it should knock down foes, that suffer on a Water Hex., Also reduced cast tiem to 1s, so it should look in the end so:

Lightning Hammer > 10E, 1s, 10s
You will deal 20-65 Lighting Damage to the targeted Foe and this Spell will have 25% Armor Penetration. If the Foe suffered from a Water Hex, Lightning Hammer will deal 10 additional Damage and will knock down the foe for 2 seconds.

I really see no sense in it, why this Skill should hav a cost of 25E oO, its total nonsense, so powerful is this skill not, as if it would need such a high cost for balance

Mr. G · Apr 18, 2008, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Every time I read one of your posts Phoenix...I die a little inside....

I Is Special · Apr 18, 2008, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. G

Every time I read one of your posts Phoenix...I die a littel inside....

However, his posts are about 10x as valuable as yours because he actually contributes something to the discussion.

I think LH does need a buff. Direct dmg is not worth the 10 extra energy.

Chronos the Defiler · Apr 18, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

I don't think anything in the air category really needs any more buffs. It already has good versatility towards both high and low al targets, penetration, blind, and very high damage.

Billz · Apr 18, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Is Special

However, his posts are about 10x as valuable as yours because he actually contributes something to the discussion.

So he butchered LOrb and turned LH into a non elite gust. And that he is basing his balance ideas around other games. Yea much more valuable.

To the op: Giving LH cracked armor is a better way to go then switching it with LOrb. Problem though is that LH could just show up in spike builds.

If anything, I would go with: is to lower the energy cost of LH to 15. Drop the max damage down to around 80 at 14 air (or alittle lower with armor pen). Then add cracked armor

Phoenix Tears · Apr 18, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billz

So he butchered LOrb and turned LH into a non elite gust. And that he is basing his balance ideas around other games. Yea much more valuable.

To the op: Giving LH cracked armor is a better way to go then switching it with LOrb. Problem though is that LH could just show up in spike builds.

If anything, I would go with: is to lower the energy cost of LH to 15. Drop the max damage down to around 80 at 14 air (or alittle lower with armor pen). Then add cracked armor

I don't butcherec LO, i gave the skill an Effect, that would actually fit alot better to the skill about what Lightnign Orbs are. To say I butchered the skill is just a prove for it, that you have absolutely no clue about Lightning Orbs.
Ok, in terms of damage potential it could be overpowered, but that is nothing, that can't be quick changed ...

God, then is LH similar to Gust!! And? Gust is so or so a terrible Elite-Skill that needs a slight buff and it already kd's 1 second longer than LH should do.
Who uses please Gust, when there are Elites, like Blinding Surge, Invoke Lightning or Ride the Lightning which are in the end more useful, than Gust, especialy 1st one

Its alot more imaginable that LH will knock down a foe, than it will cause cracked armor ... skills is name Lightning HAMMER and not Lightning Blast or so, where an effect of CA would be more imaginable

Also together with Gust and Arc Lightning, LH would be a sweet synergy then together with Water Hexes.

When Water hexes are the way for Air Eles to receive more AoE Skills, thern I say yes to this, Sair eles need that !!! and its balanced, because its a way ,that requires a synergetic condition first ...

Powerful White Man · Apr 18, 2008, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Cracked Armor should NOT come from skills that deal big damage. Spiking with LOrb was just too easy, especially when it caused CA.

Lightning Orb is not a weaker version of Lightning Hammer, the way it was before EotN came around.

They are ideal as is.

Div · Apr 19, 2008, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Lightning orb will have the same relation it had with lightning hammer before the initial buff. I don't see what's the big deal about looking at it now.

RavagerOfDreams · Apr 19, 2008, 02:18 AM // 02:18

i have no idea why you guys are Q.Q ing about this there changing it back after the tournie

whats the propose changing it when its just gunna go right back to the way it was?

ModoBasico · Apr 19, 2008, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Is Special

I think LH does need a buff. Direct dmg is not worth the 10 extra energy.

That's my point.

I liked Phoenix' idea, but I think is good for GW2, because it's a too big change.

To be honest, I like LOrb and LH as they are, but I prefer them with CA (obvously) and, as LOrb+CA is too strong, maybe is better to increase its cost or even better LH+CA.

Let's see may 1st.

Thx for you invaluable opinion, guys.

Enix · Apr 19, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Both should have some small amount of AoE - just adjacent maybe. Would make lightning skills much more viable in PvE without hurting PvP too much (no flames, pretty please).

At least fix the fact that LH will cancel if your target dies mid-cast, causing to lose all energy from the cast even if you are attuned.

Rot's Invoc is a staple on my Ele bar. It used to be much more spamable, but still does good damage for very little cost, if you are double attuned.